Dr Yonela Sanelisiwe Kentane, A Stellenbosch 'Dokter'

In this episode of Awakening Doctor, we meet Dr Yonela Sanelisiwe Kentane, a young doctor standing at the threshold of her medical career after completing six years of medical school, two years of internship, and one year of community service in South Africa’s public healthcare system. 

As she navigates the uncertainty of her next steps and reveals the struggle to balance personal life with professional ambitions, Dr. Kentane speaks candidly about the physical exhaustion and emotional vulnerability that comes with the terrain, and opens up about the painful impact of microaggressions she has faced along the way.

Despite and because of these challenges, her determination, optimism, and confidence have not wavered, demonstrating not only her strength but also her commitment to overcoming barriers in medicine and beyond - a legacy instilled by powerful role models in her family.

From her roots in the rural Eastern Cape to her journey of becoming a proud Stellenbosch "Dokter,” Dr Kentane's story is a powerful illustration of the complex ways in which the history and culture of medicine intertwine with the history and culture of a people.

Join us for this heartfelt glimpse into the experiences of a new and courageous generation of doctors who are committed to transforming the legacy of those who came before.

Chapters

• 0:00 Journey to Medicine
• 13:02 Public Health and Career Choices
• 25:35 Navigating Surgical Career Challenges
• 30:59 Surgical Passion and Public Health Advocacy
• 42:09 Navigating Personal and Professional Balance
• 52:20 Career Pathways
• 1:01:22 Emotions in Medicine

Transcript

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

00:00

So what advice would you have for a young woman who grew up partially in a rural, partially in an urban area, and is about to start medical school in January? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

00:10

Keep at it, have faith in yourself. You deserve to be there. Never doubt yourself and people may say things and people may make little snarky remarks, but never doubt your work ethic and what you've done to get to where you are and your experiences, because, honestly, your experiences are what make you the perfect person for that post or for that position in that class, and your particular experiences in life are what is going to make you, as a doctor, different from the next person. That's the thing with diversity that we always forget, is that, how I look at things and how my white male colleague look at things are very different because of our circumstance of how we grew up and what we prioritizing. So what I'm going to bring to the field is going to be completely different to what he brings to the field. But both of us equally need to bring something to this field. You need to embrace yourself being there and you need to take that position up boldly, because we need you, we really need you. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:13

I hope you're hearing that advice, Yonela. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:16

 Maybe, maybe. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:17

We need you, and the perspective that you bring and the experiences you've had make you uniquely qualified for the role. 

 Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:28

 Exactly

 Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:29

Welcome. I'm Dr Maria Christodoulou, and this is the Awakening Doctor podcast. A space where we discover the personal stories of those who work in the medical and health professions. Join me as I explore the hopes, the fears, the aspirations, and the real-life challenges of those who carry the title, responsibility and privilege of being a doctor. So, joining myself and producer Amy Kaye today is Dr Yonela Kentane. Yonela, it's lovely to have you with us. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

02:04

Thank you, Dr Maria.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

02:06

And hi Amy, nice to have you here.

Amy Kaye Producer

02:08

Hi, Hi Yonela, Hi Maria.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

02:18

So, Yonela, you tell me, where do we begin to tell the story of Dr Yonela Kentane?

 Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

So many places! Hi everybody. I'm Dr Yonela Sanelisiwe Kentane. I'm from the Eastern Cape, originally born in Cape Town. I always claim Cape Town, but that's a Capetonian thing, but honestly, who I am, is a woman who was raised in the Eastern Cape because that’s where my Dad grew up. That’s where he was born, and that’s where I draw my inspiration from.

 02:43

My grandmother is actually where the story begins. She was a matron in the rural Eastern Cape, a woman who had a great love for academia, also pushing the limits and changing society. I think in the rural Eastern Cape, particularly in those times, it was very rare for Black women to be pushing the boundaries as she did. And I think, growing up, seeing her, seeing her work so hard every single day.. We used to, I remember growing up, when my dad used to drop us off at her place, she'd be going to work every single day and walking. Particularly when her husband wasn't around to take her to work. She would walk on a daily basis to work. And the passion that she had for her community. The passion that she had for changing healthcare. So the story starts there. Love for people and how she essentially instilled that in me. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

03:40

Where in the Eastern Cape did she live? Where did you grow up? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

03:46

So I grew up in between Idutywa and East London. Idutywa is between Mthatha and Butterworth, so very, very, very small little town. Neglected, one may say. But a lot of us come from there. I do like to claim Thabo Mbeki is also from that side. I'm going to claim it okay. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

04:07

What's your earliest memory of your grandmother? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

Earliest memory? I think it's in relation to my grandfather trying to hit me. I don't know what I did, but I know I a very naughty kid living in the rural areas, and my grandfather was chasing us around the house and my grandmother was like, you know, leave them now, you're tired. That is my earliest memory. I don't think she was particularly standing up for us, but I think, cause she's very strict and she was very much about discipline, and I think growing up we were all... my family is very much about discipline, sticking to the rules and everything, and my grandmother and my grandfather really instilled that in us. I think the few years that we all spent with them, because the majority of my cousins and I, we all, and my siblings, we did live with my grandfather and my grandparents for at least a short period of time, which was really great. We got to bond, but also the discipline was essentially instilled in all of us. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

05:06

It sounds a little scary, I'll admit. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

05:09

You know, it was scary when you did something wrong, but you know what, the older you got and the more you realized okay, I need to stop doing things, you know, that really anger these people, the better. Majority of the time it was very... We had a lot of fun growing up, particularly when you're in the rurals and a farm-based area. It's beautiful. I love it. And I think I remember we spoke previously when I had posted last year that I was missing home. That is my idea of home. Idutywa. My most fondest of memories were there. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

05:44

So what does home represent for you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

05:47

Family. Family. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

05:51

And was your Gran a matron in one of the rural hospitals, or was she a community carer? How did she work? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

05:58

From my understanding, she was a matron in one of the rural CHCs. I think later on, because a lot of them do near retirement, they do go and assist more in the little NGOs, NPOs, in the area. But her main, how I remember her, is a matron in the CHCs. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

06:18

Right. And your schooling. Where did you go to school? How did you decide to get into medicine? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

06:26

So started off… Long journey. Started off in Idutywa in the preschools. My parents dropped us off there. We went to school there. My aunt was a preschool teacher so we used to go to school with her. She used to drag me and my cousin. We were exactly the same age. We literally grew up as twins. We were literally seven days apart. But then when my dad finally got to a point where he felt like he can take care of my brother and I, and also bring us to Cape Town, he then moved us. I think we were around five, six and I moved to Wynberg Girls and my brother went to Wynberg Boys and my sister was at Wynberg Girls primary. So, moved to Cape Town, Pretoria after that for a year, and then East London for a number of years and then grade 10, 11, 12, boarding school in Grahamstown.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

That's a lot of moving around.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

It's a lot of moving around, a lot of moving around. 

07:21

But my dad worked quite a lot. He travelled quite a lot for work and I guess the normal family, I guess. We move around with wherever the dad takes you. So we moved around. Where my dad went, we went. And then he left and then we had to follow him again and it's kind of that situation. 

 07:36

But I always say that it really helped me find myself and that I find it rather easy to adjust to new situations because I've been put in such situations so often at such a young age. I've been able to adjust. I've been able to also find myself a lot easier when I'm in a new environment. I'm able to make friends a lot easier, socialize a lot easier with different people, and I think I do relate that to my early childhood. Having to change schooling and everything… environments, so regularly. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

08:11

What was it like to move from a rural area to Cape Town? I imagine that was quite a challenge. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

08:17

I did not know a word of English. And moving to Wynberg girls where, I kid you not, there was, I think it was only the cleaning staff who knew Xhosa. So in order for me to communicate, I communicated through the cleaning staff, which is why I always and always respect them and really appreciate them, because they really helped my journey, so assimilating or moving into such environments. So, yeah, it was very difficult for me. No word of English. They really helped me. My parents also forced English upon me, so we were only allowed to speak English in the household and now we only speak it. 

 08:57

Yonela's Xhosa is not that great because it was forced out of me. It's not that great, but I think in my later years, about grade eight, I decided to at least try reinvest, I guess, in my Xhosa, and actually try and improve it, because I had been forced for so many years to let go of it, because that's all I essentially knew. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

09:23

I'm assuming there were other black children at Wynberg Girls, but they didn't... 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

09:27

I can't remember them. I was five, six. I can't remember them because I only remember Savannah, and I think she was an Indian girl and a whole lot of white kids and nothing else. I actually can't remember the other black girls in my class at all. But then when I went to grade one, I do completely remember those, because they were quite a fair number and it was in Pretoria. It was more diverse. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

09:55

And at what point did you decide you wanted to be a doctor? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

09:59

No idea. As you grow up, you talk to your parents. They tell you the stories of their life, you talk to your grandmother there and there and you know everyone. And then I realized that maybe I was indoctrinated to become a doctor, because there's no way. There's some level of indoctrination. 

 10:18

 Because my dad wanted to be a doctor and then because of apartheid situations. He was a bit active in the Transkei region, he had to... Essentially, he was doing a BSc. He had to move, doing a BSc. He had to transfer to Cape Town. Ended up in Cape Town, meeting my mother. He had to because his friends were getting assaulted by the police and everything, and so for his sake, his mom and my aunts were, please leave. We know you want to do medicine, but please leave. And he changed courses and he ended up in finance. So I think he kind of said, oh, so I wasn't a doctor, so someone's going to have to do this. Saw the capacity, I guess, and said, it's this one. I think I was also very close to my grandmother. I used to sleep with my grandmother every single time, particularly after my grandfather passed away, when we were in the rural areas, and we'd spend about 30 minutes to an hour every morning… that's why I used to sleep with my grandma. Every morning. I could stay in bed and we'd just talk. 

 11:21

 No one's gonna come and open the door. No one's gonna come and say, oh, Yonela, come and... I was really lazy, so no one's gonna say, Yonela, come and clean. No, no, they would leave me because I'm with my grandmother. She's a matriarch. 

 11:36

No one's gonna disturb my grandmother. So I was really happy, but the conversations, I think, and the stories that she would tell, and her experiences, I think, for me, got me to like what medicine's about and what she's appreciated within medicine. The people particularly, and taking care of people, and also just noting how behaviours impact your health, and I think that's what she was very much about. Hence, public health.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

12:09

Yes, I've read about and know about your interest in public health. In fact, you ended up doing an internship for a couple of weeks in Washington at one stage, didn't you? I think that was around the time we got to know each other. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

12:21

Yes, definitely. That was the time we got to know each other. That was an amazing experience that was organized by our Dean, Prof. Volmink. I approached him and I was like, Prof. Volmink, I'm interested in Public Health. We have no exposure to this in our degree, you need to help me, and he really did. Which is one thing that was really amazing is that, I think Stellenbosch medical faculty was amazing in that you could form meaningful relations with people in senior positions and they were keen to help if you showed any level of keenness as well. 

12:53

I approached him and he got in touch with a friend of his and this is how I was in Washington for about a month. It was very lovely. I did my internship with Keith Martin and he was amazing and he was so passionate about public health or global health, teaching and expansion as well, in its different forms, and I think he also encouraged that public health is also about the academic aspect of it. 

13:18

And it's about attending conferences, because that's where you learn and that's where you hear other people's experiences, and that's the beauty of Public Health is that we love learning from each other and we're keen to listen to one another. And he was forcing us to.. Twelve o'clock. Fine, you've been working. Go and attend this at Georgetown. 

13:37

Go attend this at this and it was very nice and you got to learn a lot. The meets and greets that we attended were amazing and, I think, also being there with someone who was just as passionate about people, just as passionate about young girls, sexual health amongst that population, as well, was really amazing, because my colleague that I went there with is just as passionate. 

13:59

She's a lot better at vocalizing things and a lot better at public speaking than I was, so it was really great that even the conversations that we would have, she would be able to at least vocalize it and express it so well. It was amazing. We got to learn from each other. We got to learn from the environment and what Washington essentially has to offer. And also realizing that public health is so big in other areas. It's got such a great focus in places like DC. I just wish that South Africa also would have those kind of platforms on a regular basis as DC does. But I guess it's a bigger scale. A whole lot of, you know, public health hubs exist in that area and which allows for a lot more discourse around public health. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

14:44

I'm just thinking there might be listeners out there who are not medical people, who won't necessarily fully understand what you mean when you say Public Health. So what does Public Health mean for you? What does it offer? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

14:56

For me, Public Health is, so it's such a broad. Like, when I said I'm interested in Public Health. I remember the interest in Public Health for me started actually in first year of medicine. At Stellenbosch we do a subject called health in context, and that is what Public Health, for me, is. It's health in context. It's putting health in each individual's context. It's very broad. 

15:20

It's population orientated, rather than more of an individual basis, and that's what it is for me. It's putting health and your community health in context. Saying the fact that, okay, you're living in this kind of situation, this is your background, this is what your future might be looking like, or this is what you want to do. How is that impacting your health, essentially?

15:44

And I didn't realize how important that is, and how in health, that no matter what you can do as a doctor, no matter what interventions you put in place, it will achieve whatever it achieves in that space of time. But if we don't change the person's circumstance and environment, they're going to come back again and you're going to have to deal with the exact same issue. Yeah, that's what public health is for me. It's changing people's backgrounds, changing people's environments for better health outcomes. It's health advocacy. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

16:21

Absolutely. So there you were, growing up in this environment where your grandmother was a matron and your father had wanted to be a doctor and was actively promoting this idea that you should do medicine. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

16:31

No, not actively. I think it was passive. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

16:34

Okay. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

16:34

I never knew it was happening until I was 15 and he was telling me he wanted to be a doctor and I was like I never knew this. It was very passive. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

16:42

So at what point did you decide to apply for medical school, and what was that whole process like for you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

16:47

I think in grade 10, I wanted to open myself because I wasn't sure exactly. I knew I loved people. I knew I loved helping people, but I didn't want to limit myself. I did the general four big major subjects, biology, physics, accounting and I was like you know what, we'll see how it goes in the last year. In matric I attended a lot of the open days for the universities that were in Grahamstown and I had to open myself. 

17:15

I think the decision was really just realizing that I really do like people and I do know the fact that there's so many ways to help various people, but this is, I think, the way I would enjoy most. I wouldn't say that this is where I completely decided, because I was maybe in grade 11 at the time, when my cousin had a seizure, a febrile seizure, at home, and I felt very useless. But my grandmother was on top of things. She was elderly at the time but she was quite overwhelmed by the fact that my aunt sent her children to her and now her children are having seizures, which is fair, but she was able to take care of the child and do the appropriate thing for the child at that moment, and I think that, for me, also really comforted me. 

18:09

But for me and my experience, when that happened, it was very much of a, I feel useless and I don't like this feeling in this situation where someone's health is at risk. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Right. Was that the first time you'd seen someone have a seizure? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

18:21

I think in front of me, I think definitely. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

18:24

That can be quite frightening. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

18:26

It was. It was, and I think we were in the rural areas and there are no roads. We didn't have a car. My dad wasn't there. My aunt and my uncle obviously were in Cape Town, so essentially it was just us and my grandmother and my other aunt was at work, so it was very scary for us all. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

18:47

How wonderful that your grandmother did know what to do and could take care of your cousin.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

Exactly, and I think for me that just.. it was very comforting.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Interesting, because you were talking about health in context, and then you know, there you are, and your cousin experiences something like that in that context, and the powerlessness of that, and the helplessness of that situation.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

19:09

Yeah. That was it. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

19:11

So why Stellenbosch? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

19:15

Do you want me to give the honest truth?

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Yes, please, the honest truth. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

Honest truth is, so, I knew I wanted to go back to Cape Town. I think for me it was always Cape Town, whether it's Stellenbosch or UCT, but I wanted UCT. I think that was my dad and I's dream for a very long time. 

19:36

When we were working, every single day, when we were doing homework, this is what we wanted. We wanted UCT. When I was applying, it was always UCT, but Stellenbosch offered a bursary. My dad looked at me and said, listen here…

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

The man is in finance, so you know…

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

The man is. He said, there's no way. He said, there's no way Yonela. You’re okay with Stellenbosch and for the mere fact that you’re okay with it, I think you can take it. They made it a very soft blow, even though, yes, maybe it wasn't my first choice to go there, but because of finances and also, it didn't make sense for me to go to UCT when they were not offering anything more than acceptance. 

20:20

But also Stellenbosch had the recruiting camp that we all attend that we infamously called the Black Camp. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

20:27

I remember that. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

20:28

Yes, only people of colour. But for me it felt like a very safe space. It also felt like a space where we can also connect as people of colour, that next year we don't feel alone, as well. But they also introduced us to other current students at Stellenbosch University who also had attended the recruitment camp, received the bursary, as well, and the stories that they told and the community that Tygerberg essentially seemed to have formed, it was very comforting. So, I think a lot of us took the bursary because, also, we felt like, you know what? It's not that bad. They've reassured us that this is not a space that we're going to feel left out. This is not a space that we're going to feel like, can’t be ourselves. So I said, you know what, you're giving money, you're going to essentially help my parents, and you’re also saying that I'm going to be comfortable in the space. So, I said I’m okay with it.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

21:28

I’m sitting here thinking well, when I was at school, thinking about medical school, there was also this whole, UCT was the goal. And I'm sitting here today thinking, what was it? Why was UCT the goal? What did we know about UCT that made us - you and I - think that that was the prize, to go to UCT? What was it in your days? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

21:51

The rumor was that UCT was the best in medicine. The best doctors come out of UCT, the best people. The experience is also lovely in Cape Town. So I think for me it was always, I want to be at the top university, because I don't know anything other than being at the top. I need to be at the top as well. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

22:10

So what did it feel like to then say, okay, because of the bursary, because they're making it quite a welcoming space, I'll accept this place at Stellenbosch. How was that decision for you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

22:25

But Stellenbosch also said no, listen, you want to be a Stellenbosch “dokter”. And I cannot, for the life of me, forget. It was the head of medicine at the time. He said it every single time, and he even said it when we were there for the recruitment camp, and I was like, wow, you're making me want to be a Stellenbosch “dokter” too. 

22:42

And I think they reassured us that you're going to come out of there on top. You're going to come out of there clinically on top. And then when I discussed with my aunt, who was a doctor as well, and everyone, they also said, no Stellenbosch was actually very good. So, I think I was reassured by that, and I think I had to be realistic and unfortunately, finances are a thing that one has to take in consideration. One has dreams, but if financially they're not feasible, I said, no. My Dad’s influence that said, if there’s not a major deficit or any disadvantage that I'm going to face by going to Stellenbosch, or choosing Stellenbosch over UCT, then yes, it was Stellenbosch. Stellenbosch won. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

23:25

Right, I don't know if Stellenbosch is still doing that recruitment camp. I think they do, but it was certainly part of the whole transformation drive at that time, to diversify the campus.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

Yes, and they did a very good job.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

They did. In fact, it's the most diversity-transformed campus in terms of demographics in the country for a long time. It may still be.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

23:49

No, definitely. And it felt like it. I didn't feel like I was alone. It didn't feel like people like me were never there. It felt relatively comfortable.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

23:52

And that experience that you had at the recruitment camp, where you had the idea that actually there were others like you, there were people you could be friends with, that you would be welcome and that it was a safe space, was that your experience of being at Stellenbosch Medical School? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

24:06

Yes, it was definitely my experiences. I also ended up being friends with a lot of the people that I met there. So a lot of my friends still are the people I met at recruitment camp. So for me, I think that was important. And now you look back and you're like, thank God, I made that decision. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

24:25

Interesting. So are you proud to be a Stellenbosch “dokter”? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

24:30

I'm very proud to be a Stellenbosch “dokter”. “Bossies dokter”. I'm very proud. I can't say I'm not. I would gladly go back, either, which is crazy. I think for me, it's crazy how you couldn't fully imagine yourself in a place and now you would not mind going back, you know. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

24:52

So I mean medical school is not that long ago. You graduated about three years ago?

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

2020.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Okay, so four years ago. Are there any specific incidents or times that stand out for you? Things about being a medical student, memories of things that happened, that are highlights for you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

25:11

As a student, I think, for me, general surgery third year, I think that was one of the things that really stood out for me. I’m a very confident person. I wouldn't say confident. I can, in a one-on-one situation or very small group, I can be very confident and I'm very out there. I'm not going to shy away. I'm going to make people laugh, I'm going to do things. Honestly, it's a family thing. 

25:35

But I remember third year, I was in surgery. Crazy it’s surgery. We were doing general surgery, I think it was HPD, and I had a registrar who we were dealing with on a daily basis.  And we had our own patients. At Stellenbosch you have your own patients and you follow up your own patients, and every morning you see your patients. No one knows your patient as much as you know your patient. And it was lovely. I think one of the things I loved… that made me love medicine even more. So we were intaking patients and we all had seen patients and I was presenting. 

26:12

But I think the Reg asked okay, anyone..? And I was like, I do, and then, I think I was very fast, or very loud or I don't know... It was a white, male, Afrikaans reg, and he said to me, oh, you're very confident. But in the way that he said it, I can't remember what was happening exactly, but I just remember him saying to me, in front of everyone in my group, oh, but you're very confident. It was like a stab in the heart. As if he was saying I shouldn't be. That was for me… But ja, that was one of the things that I remember. I presented the patient. Then I went home. I think I reflected on it and how it was unnecessary on his part, but how it made me feel. 

27:04

But obviously my colleagues, I was the only black woman in the group. Everyone else was white colleagues and they were very, very nice and there were a few males that were very supportive. My clinical partner was a white man. He was like yo, he was ready to throw arms. At that time, we really had each other's backs. I showed him how confident or not so confident I can be the days after, because it was so unnecessary. 

27:30

But I think those are like the microaggressions that we experienced and the little jabs that… I don't know. Maybe he was trying to, you know, bring it down or say that I had no grounds to be that confident. But also I'm a third year. So is it really necessary for you to say that? But for me, I mean, most memorable time, but I think also, I’m a very positive person. But that for me was like I'm not going to let anyone dictate how I should be or how I should present myself. I'm not going to dim myself for you or place myself at a level that you believe that I should be at. It really helped me navigate the surgical life. Now I'm experiencing, because a lot of the doctors that we do come across in surgery are very condescending, are bullies, and being able to be like, you know what, you know how to stand up for yourself and, if you need to, you do it in an appropriate way. Basically, the next day I was not confident anymore and he had to beg me to present my patients. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

28:50

Gosh Yonela. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

28:52

I was like, you're going to beg me to present all my patients because this is how a not-so-confident Yonela looks like. You're going to ask whose patient is this, instead of me running to the front and saying hi and making things very simple and easy for you. The little things we have experienced has taught me so much outside of just the classroom, but just how to deal with people and how not to let people put you down, because of whatever reason that they have. But I did get a surgery out of it. I think it was his way of apologizing, you know? He was like no, don't you want to help me? Can you come and assist? It's your patient? And I was like, sure thing, and we were there. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

29:37

I know you tend to be quite an optimistic person and, as you've been telling this story, what listeners can't see is that you've had a smile on your face throughout, even as the tears were falling. I'm curious about the tears, because it's a couple of years ago. Tell us about the tears, today, when you talk about that. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

29:57

I think the tears today is that we're constantly facing these things in the surgical discipline, these personalities that don't look to uplift. Particularly this circuit that I'm in, people aren't looking to uplift and surgery is already very demanding physically, mentally. So you putting me down or not trying to at least uplift me and make me feel like I should be comfortable in this environment, is crazy. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

30:27

What do you think it is that creates that kind of environment? What makes people behave that way? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

30:33

I wish I knew, because I think it's not in me to understand these things. I don't know why they think that this is the way. Maybe it's how surgery has been framed or the discipline has been in the years prior. They’re all dominated. We're all tough, we can… I don't know. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

30:50

So why surgery? What drew you to surgery? Because I know that that changed for you. I know you were thinking of going into public health and then you made a decision to get into surgery. I know you did a lot of surgery in your community service years. What is it about surgery? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

31:04

I experienced it in 3rd year as well. That particular patient that he actually allowed me to assist in his surgery. I remember it was a 50 something year old coloured male. He was a CA colon. Every single morning I saw him. Every single morning I saw that man. I formed a relationship with him. I knew him. I remember I had to have him walking up the stairs in order to see how he's able to take on surgery, if he's fit enough for surgery. 

31:33

You came in here, you had a diagnosis and it was essentially fatal. But here you are, we've cut it out and you're good to go. I was able to see him from the day he was admitted until the day he was discharged. His condition changed, his outlook on life changed. We gave him a fatal diagnosis and we removed it. That was for me very satisfying. I could see that he was happy. It's been translated to every single surgical patient experience for me. They come in, they have a diagnosis, we treat, we manage, they get discharged. They come up for follow-up and they're so grateful. Now their perspective has completely changed. With surgery we can fix something, or we can cut it out and you're good to go, or we at least make you feel comfortable. Very much different from what public health is about, because public health is very much a long term situation. You advise, you pray and you hope and you advocate for programs, etc. etc. 

32:40

And you pray and you hope that they listen. Very different, but both have my heart. So I actually haven't left public health. I think, 2022, so it was my second year internship. Really enjoyed first year internship surgery, very much. Enjoyed orthopaedics as well and got a lot of opportunities to do operations in orthopaedics and really realized that actually I really enjoy having patients come in, I do things and they’re good, or they're somewhat good and I can see their improvement tangibly. 

33:15

I always call it my life-defining moment, when I actually had to think about okay, what do I want to do with my life going forward? And I think for me it was realizing that I don't need to choose. I don't need to choose to be a surgeon or a public health advocate or to work within public health. I can do both and I think that's where I am looking to be. Just both. They both satisfy a part of me that I need to be satisfied. I like changing systems. I like seeing a problem and fixing it, which is essentially what public health also does and I can see that in surgery. They both see problems and you identify problems and you fix. Unfortunately, with public health, they might not take your advice, but I still want to do it. 

34:02

I really, I think with surgical, unfortunately, it's very time sensitive. Also, I have surgical experience now and since that I just continue to be comfortable in the surgical, because the older you get, the more tired you get and surgery requires a very energetic body, and so I think, for now, I've decided to focus more so on the surgical and not necessarily neglect, but engage the public health on a more off-the-scene basis. More of a course basis, more the event basis, more going and attending events, so to stay in the discourse but not necessarily there actively. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

34:47

And maybe it's also about timing. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

34:49

So I'm really keen to finish the surgical and enjoy it and do what I can and somehow integrate it, but also integrate it with my public health as well. And hopefully after, I can take a sabbatical and just pursue the public health and enjoy the public health, as well. Change the systems, improve surgical systems as well, improve surgical care for patients through my knowledge of public health, and I think that's what we need to be doing. I think we can't separate, and for me, I can't separate. I can't separate the two. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

35:25

So leadership and social advocacy, I think has also been a theme in the conversations you and I have had over the years. I met you when you were on the Tygerberg Student Council and, if I remember correctly, your portfolio was critical engagement. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

35:40

Yes, it was. It was critical engagement. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

35:43

What was that time like? We started by talking about highlights of your time as a medical student, and you shared some of the painful experiences. What put you in a leadership role, what made you step up for leadership and what was it like being a student leader on that campus? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

35:59

Ah, being a student leader on that campus. I like change. I like seeing a problem and working towards changing something. Working towards betterment, and that's why I took on a leadership role. Through engagement one can achieve so much. Other than the leadership, I also was part of the Frederik van Zyl Slabbert Foundation at Stellenbosch. Very much critical engagement.

A course where I facilitated a lot of conversations, was the women empowerment course that I ran. Discourse can change so much. Many of us, or many of our colleagues, essentially come from backgrounds where discourse that is very challenging, that is very emotionally rooted, that is very socially driven, is lacking, and creating platforms that prioritize this. To exposing through, I guess, word and, you know, sharing everyone's experiences assists. Particularly at Stellenbosch, because a lot of our colleagues came from various backgrounds, didn't have interactions with people who looked like me, sound like me or anything. So discourse is what we had and critical engagement allowed for such discourse.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

What are the stories that you think people need to hear, or needed to hear at that time? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

37:17

At that time. For me, it was that we've all have different experiences, we all come from different places. We all deserve to be here. I think that's it for me. There's always a hoo-ha of who deserves to be where.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

37:27

So I know, you know that you deserve to be there. Do you believe that you deserve to be there, deserve to be a doctor, deserve to be a medical student? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

37:42

I do. My confidence level doesn't allow me to doubt myself ever, but I do, because I worked. I work so hard and I work so strategically that everything is planned. I've never been a person who lets things happen by chance. Getting into med school… I even remember it was Farah who came to Grahamstown. And I remember her very vividly, and she basically broke down the requirements for Stellenbosch. What they look at. And I sat down after attending that and I said, okay, this is what you meet, this is what you don't meet. There are much better people than you. There are much smarter people than you. So how can you make yourself more deserving of this position? So for me, that's how I've always looked at things. How can you essentially align yourself to be the best position person for this particular position? Not just academia, though. For me it's diversifying myself and giving myself the edge. It’s very difficult for you to say no to me.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

38:49

What is it about that that makes the emotion well up for you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

39:06

It's tiring. It was okay during high school because the workload wasn't hectic. Everything… it wasn't too much. But the older I've gotten, the more tiring it's become. So I remember we had this discussion last year. We had to let bygones by bygones. Just let things be. Not always looking at the next move, what I need to do to position myself, to be the best candidate or whatever. That I just let myself rest.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

What makes it hard to rest?

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

I think, when you've always positioned yourself as the smart person or not necessarily a smart person, but… I don't know how to describe it, but I guess this was where my strengths lied… academia and family-wise as well. This is where I was. My brother has ADHD and prior to treatment and everything, he had all the attention from my parents and I guess this was where I got my attention. Excellence in academia. 

40:14

So, now I guess it's translated to this. So now having to call myself back and be like this was, like I guess, what you call a trauma response and you trying to also gain attention. We always make jokes and be like, oh, we were the not so troublesome kids and look at us now. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

40:35

Mmm. So there's the individual and family stuff and the backstories in your family that contribute to that, but I do think that, even thinking about some of the subtle microaggressions you spoke about earlier, I do think that it's really hard to make your way in the world as a young black woman and that feeling that you have to somehow prove that you deserve may have more to do with that than other things.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

41:04

At all times. At all times. And particularly moving to Stellenbosch and everything… it ended up becoming very much… A black woman. You need to prove yourself at all times. Crazy. You weren’t a quota.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Ja, and you do know that you weren't a quota admission right?

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

I think, even if I was, I honestly I… I cannot, because I know I deserved to be there.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Well, clearly, because here you are on the other side of that journey. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

41:27

I deserved to be there. I worked hard to be there. Every decision anyone had to make to get me there, I deserved to be there.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

And so you made your way through all of that, and here you are now just completed your community service. I would like us to talk a little bit about what that was like, because I think it was not an easy time, but also to talk about… So you go to medical school, you have these ideas of becoming a doctor, and now you've graduated and there's a shortage of jobs for young doctors in your position. So, what's it like to be on the other side of this medical school experience and now you're a young doctor in the world and there's no jobs and it's really tricky. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest 

42:09

I've had so many breakdowns. My dad is tired of my calls crying. I did everything as per the book. I did more, in fact, and I still am not where I feel like I should be. But, to be fair, I think my expectations are also quite crazy. So, yes, the job market is very difficult, but last year broke me. The amount of workload that we had, the responsibilities that we had. Definitely I grew a lot, my skills improved drastically, but I also know that I literally had no time for myself. My friends would be calling me at 6 pm, 7 pm saying, Yonela, go home. 

42:59

Yonela, the hospital has someone on duty, but you need to go home right now because you've been there since 6.30 in the morning. Go home. And, it was very difficult. It was very tough for all of us in the department. We really had each other's back, but I told myself that I could never do general surgery again. 

43:19

It completely killed me and I was exhausted. By the end of the year I just wanted to leave and just go home and cry. And that's what I did, which is great. But I told myself that I'll never touch general surgery again. So I allowed myself to take the first January off. 

43:35

Yes, there was no offer, but also I was like, I'm so happy there is no offer because then I can at least take this month off to be and just exist without any responsibility, which is something that I haven't done in so long. So I did that and felt more energetic at the end of the month, in Jan, and when I had recuperated and everything and I started applying for jobs, a sessional post in neurology opened, which is crazy, because then I got the post and that was in February and it was a sessional post. I think for me it was very difficult that it was not a permanent job, it was sessional. It's not necessarily what I want. And, possibly, a general surgery post would have come a lot easier for me, having done what was necessary, having the skills, but I’m also not willing to sacrifice myself. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

44:29

I think there's something pretty wise about that last.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

44:34

Last year was very much of a sacrifice. I do appreciate everything, particularly my consultants. They were very tough on us but cared. It was a very, very good balance, even now, that they actually check up on us. Yesterday even. “So, give me an update”, and it was just merely that they cared enough to ask that. You’re good? What’s happening? We were working hard, long hours and, I think, at levels that I don't think we should be working at.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

45:06

So what was the reality? You were in North West Province, right? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

45:09

According to them, it's a city, so it was a tertiary hospital in the North West, so it was the main referral centre. And essentially working as a medical officer slash registrar, because we even called ourselves the mini registrars because it just felt like, there's no way. There was academic expectations but there was also practical expectations that were quite hectic.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

How many community service doctors were you?

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

45:36

There were five of us in the department. Four of us were from Stellenbosch, females. I was the only one who wanted a surgical discipline, so I gained a lot. I'm grateful that I was able to at least benefit, that I can say I did surgery and I'm competent in this way. I think we had each other's backs. We had each other's backs as Comm Servs. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

45:56

So there's community, there's colleagues, there's a sense of having each other's backs. But the workload and the level of responsibility, when you say your Comm Serv time broke you, what does that mean? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

46:09

I was exhausted. My dad saw me in May, April, and he was concerned and he was like, do you not want to come back? I had lost so much weight. There was definitely no taking care of oneself because you couldn't, because you've got so much to to do, you've got so much to catch up on and, I think, also writing exams, because the pressure that we put on ourselves as well, that also didn't help the situation. It was a lot. We had each other's backs and it was positive in that sense. But every day, the patient's dying on a daily basis, and I think that also was just like traumatizing. Patients dying on a daily basis because of resources, because you're in a surgical discipline and patients are coming in with cancers and there's nothing you can essentially do for some of the patients. Every single day you lose a life. It's going to have an effect on you.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

And there's something about being human enough to acknowledge that it has an effect on you that is important. Do you remember the first patient you worked with who died? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

47:19

Actually, for me this one was more on a positive note. It was Internal Medicine in third year. She was my patient. It was Ward A8 at Tygerberg Hospital and I would see this woman every single morning and she was difficult. She was ready to fight me every single morning. She could see that her condition was worsening, she could see that she was not happy and she was not healthy and her family could see it as well. And I remember one morning I came back to see her at six o'clock in the morning and she was not there and I asked the nurse what was going on? Where is she, is she at a scan? She said, no, she had demised. And I had to sit with myself to figure out how do I feel about this? But it was oddly not a negative feeling that I felt. That, I think she's where she's been wanting to be at in terms of our conversations. 

48:20

She was tired, she was exhausted. I remember one day she was saying that she was tired of fighting to keep herself alive. So my first experience of a patient's death, that was my patient, was positive in that I knew what she wanted. She had expressed it. She was very difficult. Every intervention that I'd be like, can you please do this? 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

48:41

So there was something right about that. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

48:43

There was something right about her passing, because I think she was where she wanted to be. 

Dr Maria ChristodoulouHost

48:51

I made some notes many years ago when you and I had a meeting with, I think, two or three of your fellow student leaders, about women in leadership, and we were planning a group event, and we were talking about what the outcomes were that you wanted from that event, What you wanted participants to take away and I wrote down something that you said that day. As you're talking now, it felt like there's something in what you were asking for then that might be important. 

 49:20

There were four of you and I asked what each of you wanted to get from the workshop for yourself and for your fellow students. And you said you wanted students to be able to analyze people's stories and be able to interpret those stories in a new way and make meaning out of somebody else's story, and that listening and analyzing is a big part of what leadership is about. And then you said, and very passionately, you said, we need to know, what are the people's cries?

Amy Kaye Producer

Mmm. Wow.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

49:53

Very much me. You get so much from people's stories. You get so much from listening. You gain so much. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

50:01

So what do you hope people gain from your story? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

50:07

My story. Sjoe. That I think you mustn’t be too hard on yourself. Allow yourself to enjoy life. I think that's where I'm at right now. Yes, I'm here and I'm comfortable where I am, and I'm not going to take that for granted. The decisions I've made, also the circumstances of where I come from, but allow yourself to enjoy life and don't be too hard on yourself. Being in medicine, seeing patients, different ages, different outcomes, you realize that life is way too short to prioritize career, and that's it. Listening to some of your podcasts as well, I have for me, particularly with a woman in surgery. We're not going to mention her. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

50:53

Well, maybe we should, because you've also been involved in Project Flamingo, right? So Yonela volunteers to do surgeries for Project Flamingo. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

51:05

Yes, I have. I have. It’s been amazing and for me, in her podcast, Dr. Liana Roodt, when she just reflects back on her life. What stood out for me and it had me reflecting back on what's most important for me as a woman in surgery is that, here I am… You ask, now that she's 40, how does she feel? And I'm thinking, okay, when I'm 40, what do I want to look back and think okay, I achieved… And what I'm happy about that I achieved, and am I happy about the decisions that I've made in relation to my personal life, career.

 I was driving to work by the way. I was driving to work when I listened to that and I was like, listen, I might quit today. It had me realize that at every point in my life, family has been everything for me and I think I need to prioritize that, even in my everyday life and my everyday decisions. So, yes, I am very career-based. It's always been second nature to focus on my career, but there's also this aspect of me that is very important to me that when I.. you know, when I look back when I'm 40 years old, 50, that this is going to be one of the things that I prioritized. 

I love my patients because… My greatest entertainment form, because it's so great to interact with patients every single day. When anyone asks me would you choose anything else? What else did you want to do? I wanted to be an accountant. For me, every single day, I just feel like I get something different from my patients.

52:41

The experience is different, every day is new, their stories are different and the conversations are different. It's so fulfilling. Currently, I'm working also in a private casualty and even when the patients come in with a fever and it's two o'clock in the morning. Oh my gosh, just Panado. It makes everything so worth it. It makes you feel, oh, you know what, it’s okay that I didn't sleep all night because I got to interact with you. So every interaction is so different and it actually just rejuvenates you and your humanness. That, for me, is what is most important. But also, I do realize the fact that there is that family aspect that I need to also pay attention to, because, yes, my patients do feed into my soul and my humanness, but I also need to fulfill this aspect. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

53:34

So what does that mean? What are you going to do differently now that you have that awareness? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

53:37

I have no idea. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

53:40

Just keep working? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

53:43

I don't know. Just keep existing. This is not something I've actively thought about. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

53:50

Well, you did say to me the other day that what it has done, in a sense, is given you permission to actually not just rush on the career treadmill and take some time and space out now. Maybe work as a medical officer for a while before you jump into a registrar post and have a bit of space to just reflect and come back to centre and really think about what you want, because I think the trajectory of the medical career is such that there’s a lot of pressure to go straight from Comm Serve into a Registrar post and that actually, maybe it's okay to take a bit of time to reflect and to work in different environments and get a sense of the field before you decide what you want to specialize in, if you want to specialize, because I think that is not an option that's often put on the table.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

54:35

That is true, and it really has been a very great experience. I mean, yes, I do know what I want to specialize in. Being in this market where we essentially don't have jobs, being forced to enter the private space, has been so different for me. It has really highlighted why public health for me is so important, because you see so many patients that require so many services… They can't because of finance. And then how certain groups of people also have such access to certain resources. Where it's not particularly indicated you can do certain things just because they have a financial ability. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

55:10

Right, so there's a disparity in healthcare.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

Definitely.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Certainly private versus public, and I guess there is something really crazy, frustrating, about… We have a shortage of doctors in this country. We have a public health system that is very overburdened and we don't have the funds to appoint more doctors. And then there's young doctors like yourself who really are committed and who want to work and because of the funding, because of the budget cuts, because of the freezing of posts, there isn't employment for you. So somebody whose heart and mindset is so geared towards public health finds herself having to do sessions in the private sector. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

55:49

But you get to learn a lot.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Which I think is important. You get to see the other side of medicine. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

55:55

Exactly, and you also get to appreciate the public health care system and what it affords patients who have nothing. I won't lie, the South African public health system is doing phenomenal work and one cannot deny it, because we see it on a daily basis. A lot of the patients that I treat coming in private, are actually coming from the NHS. They will be like, we wait for about 12 hours. You're like, oh shit, but I mean the public people aren't waiting 12 hours at least? And you just relate it back and you just realize that I think in the public health sphere we're also trying as much as we can, globally, to provide services to those who need it most. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

56:40

And I think, for the most part, we do provide an incredible service, and what I love is that there's doctors like you working in that service, and so I do it too. We get so focused on the inadequacies of the system that we lose sight of the heart of the individuals that are working in the system. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

56:55

Yes, definitely, I still think that we need to continue to focus on those inadequacies of the system. Focusing on things like that is how one forms solutions. That's why I really need people to look where we're falling short. I think that is what's so important, and I think that's where health systems… like yes, I'm going to say it, the Western Cape has looked at, and the institutions have said, okay, this is where you're falling short, so how can I improve on this? Yes, it's a minor detail, but it's so important, and it's the little daily activities one does that improve an entire system. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

57:35

What do you wish you had known about medicine before you began? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

57:38

That it's tiring. That you’re tired 90% of the time. That emotionally, you're going to be exhausted because you really are dealing with people at their most vulnerable and therefore you need to be vulnerable too and you need to be open to them. You can't come into… they’re a fever and act like, oh, it's nothing, because for them it is everything, even a fever. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

58:09

Is there anything you would do differently if you could go back and start again? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

58:13

Don't ask me this question.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

I am asking you this question

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

No.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

No?

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

This is a question that I think… it lingers in my heart of heart, in the deepest… Very superficially, yes, I definitely wouldn’t have done medicine. I'd have been a CA, but health is where I'm supposed to be, in whichever form it's in, whether it's in the public health or the surgical, whichever form. This is where I'm supposed to be. I do have a heart for people, and health has been able to allow me to embrace that.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

And the 15 or 16-year old who witnessed her cousin having a seizure and made a decision that she would never feel so helpless again? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

58:56

She's no longer helpless. She can actually manage a seizure, she knows what to do, she knows how to go about it. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

59:06

Coming back to this idea of people's stories and how we need to listen to people's stories and make meaning of those stories, and we need to know, what are the people's cries. What's your cry? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

59:22

Oh, wow. What's my cry? I have no idea what my cry is at this point. I don't know. It's very hard to focus on yourself in the greater scheme of the medical field. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

59:35

What do you think makes it hard? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

59:38

The system is so overburdened with such a great load of patients and you trying to carry everyone else's cries, that it's so hard. When you come back you just want to essentially flush yourself out of those and drown yourself in a movie or a book or academics, that you can't even sit down and be like, oh hey, where am I? 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:00:07

So where are you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:00:08

I don't know, but I'm finding, I'm trying, I know what I like. I know what I'm passionate about.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

And it's okay not to know at this stage of the journey. You've just completed an enormous task. Six years of medical school, two years of internship and a one-year community service. It's okay to just pause and breathe and not yet know exactly what's next. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:00:31

I don't know and I'm taking my time. I'm really.. I think… we’ve spoken about how I'm just taking my time to figure out where I'm at, where I'm going. I am not in a rush right now and I think a lot of people that I've spoken to, particularly here, is that getting out or being a specialist as soon as possible, but for me, I still feel like, yes, I do want the rest that comes with being a specialist, and I think that is what we all are craving for and that's what we all want. The rest that comes with specializing. Getting there is so tiring, and I want time so that I can be my best. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

I think that’s very wise.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

We’re trying this wisdom thing now, I guess.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:01:14

How's that working for you? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:01:17

It’s been a while. Twenty-seven years of just rolling around. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:01:22

So what advice would you have for a young woman who grew up partially in a rural, partially in an urban area, and is about to start medical school in January? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:01:32

Keep at it, have faith in yourself. You deserve to be there. Never doubt yourself and people may say things and people may make little snarky remarks, but never doubt your work ethic and what you've done to get to where you are and your experiences, because, honestly, your experiences are what make you the perfect person for that post or for that position in that class. And your particular experiences in life are what is going to make you, as a doctor, different from the next person. That's the thing with diversity that we always forget, is that, how I look at things and how my white male colleague look at things are very different because of our circumstance of how we grew up and what we prioritizing. So what I'm going to bring to the field is going to be completely different from what he brings to the field. But both of us equally need to bring something to this field. You need to embrace yourself being there and you need to take that position up boldly, because we need you. We really need you. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:02:34

I hope you're hearing that advice, Yonela. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:02:38

Maybe, maybe. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:02:40

We need you, and the perspective that you bring and the experiences you've had make you uniquely qualified for the role. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:02:50

Exactly. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:02:51

Is there anything we haven't spoken about that you'd like to share? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:02:55

You’ve touched on everything. Onto the road of becoming a urologist, because we are taking up positions that aren't generally taken up by black women. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:03:06

By women and then black women. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:03:08

In South Africa and the world at large. So, exciting times ahead, challenges ahead, but we'll see where we go. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:03:15

When do you start your new position? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:03:18

They said, when they send the confirmation letter, I'm good to go. I need to start. That's what they said. So if it comes, maybe in the next hour, maybe, then that's it. I'm very happy. I called my dad yesterday. I'm so happy.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:03:36

How about you, Amy? Anything you'd like to ask Yonela? 

Amy Kaye

01:03:41

I was just thinking, if I was your patient, I would be very happy. I don't know if I would want to high five you or hug you, but I just think it's so cool that you are so authentic and real and connected emotionally and that you can laugh and you can cry and you can do it simultaneously, and that there's the light and the dark and it's really beautiful and we do need you and whatever you end up doing, we do need you and you bring a lot to the table and you deserve to be wherever you choose to be and you're just wonderful. So, thank you, I'm so excited to see where you end up. This is just the start and please take a break. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:04:24

Thank you so much. No, I'm definitely looking at taking a break. Eventually. I can't promise anything. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:04:31

I also have something else written here in my notes, about something you said about yourself last year, and it was that you know loss and because of that, you know love. That you know how to make a heavy situation light and that you bring joy to every room, and that you're happy about that. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:04:53

That's literally what I want to do. That’s literally me.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:04:58

Tell me what about that makes you cry? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:05:04

Because sometimes you realize that, you know, positivity is a very... It's a crazy thing, because sometimes you want to… Ugh, am I just being too optimistic about life? Am I being delusional? I think it's the delusion that you associate with positivity, but I can't help it. I'm very crazily positive in how I've been able to navigate this life thing. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:05:34

I remember years ago, when Obama was still a senator, he wrote a book about the state of American politics, but the title of the book was The Audacity of Hope and that title really stayed with me. And you know, when you talk about positivity, I'm not hearing like a fake la-la kind of positivity. I'm hearing hope and the willingness to be part of solutions. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:06:01

Yes, that’s the thing with experiences and life. I can't say that I take anything that I've been through for granted, because really, even the worst of experiences… from my mother's death and everything, it's who I am and it's made me who I am. I can't dissociate that from who I am. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:06:21

I think that's normal, I think that's healthy, and I'm very aware that you've just introduced a very big topic right here at the end. One that I know about, but that I didn't think you would talk about today. Do you want to tell us about your mother's death? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:06:37

My mother passed away at a very young age. I actually don't know her. Three months old, car accident, and I only found out properly, because my dad remarried a few years later, which is when we ended up moving down to be with my grandmother, because of my mother's death and my dad trying to like navigate life without my mother. 

01:06:58

I only found out, I think, when I was grade one, six, seven years old, from someone's odd remark that was made randomly, and then I was like, okay, so I guess this is not my mother, the person essentially that I regarded as my mother all my life. It was interesting how I kind of like reacted to that, in that, it wasn't a sad realization for me per se. It was like, oh, okay, so this is the case. But it changed nothing for me because the treatment was essentially still the same. I was raised in a loving household. She didn't treat me any differently. Actually, I'm lying. She definitely treated my brother, my mom's child, and her child, definitely the boys. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:07:44

Okay, so it was about boys.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

It was about boys. My mom had two kids, myself and my older brother. My stepmom, who I refer to as my mom, has my little brother, and she treated my sister and I, her older daughter... We always like, ja, she treated those boys so good. The treatment was amazing and everything. So for me, it changed nothing finding out. I was seven and I like to know where she came from, but nothing else really changed for me. As I said, I know love because of the situations that I've been through. I know what real love is, and it's been amazing to experience. That experience really captures who I am and how I experience love. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:08:30

So if I said, who is Dr Yonela Kentane, what would you say? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:08:35

A very passionate person, very emotional, very in touch with her patients. That's who Dr. Kentane is and very keen to help her patients at all times. But I also don't regard myself as Dr. Kentane. I regard myself as Yonela. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:08:53

So who is Yonela?

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:08:54

Who's Yonela? Very emotional, but really keen to help people and really keen to experience life and experience people in their different natures and everything, and experience life. So really keen on experiencing life now because that's where I need to be. I cried in front of the whole department last year. A patient of mine demised and… She had come in with obstructive gallstones and the medicine people said, no, we have to intervene. Fine, we intervened, but we had to send her to Joburg and she came back and she had pancreatitis, but severe pancreatitis, and she was young, she was about 40. And she’d.. I had a hectic call, so many laps of patients, so that was exhausting and then in between each lap I had to... 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:09:46

Laparotomy. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:09:47

Yeah, laparotomy. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:09:50

Opening the abdomen, for those who don't know. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:09:53

I had to go and review her and I had an intern literally sitting next to her, camping next to her, because I was like… I just need regular gases, I just need you to just pay attention to this patient. I ended up getting her to ICU. She coded in ICU, she demised and I had to present in the morning meeting. I definitely cried in front of a majority male department of consultants. I was presenting the death and I cried and I just… I couldn't. My registrar had to take over but I was like, yep, this is it, this is the day where Yonela cries in front of the whole department. My consultants were like, okay. Are you okay, like an hour later. So I'm a crier, HODs have seen it. 

Amy Kaye

01:10:36

It's always interesting that if you are a crier, because it's more about, like, how other people feel uncomfortable about it, because they would never do that. So it's more about how they're feeling. Where you're like, I cried, this is what I do, this is how I express myself, it's not a big deal, I'm fine. And then everybody else is like, are you okay? Yeah, because I cried, so it’s out of my system. It’s all good.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:10:52

I cried. I'm done. I just needed to cry about this. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:10:55

So what are you left with at the end of this conversation? What's it been like to tell us a little bit about your story, and what are you taking away? 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:11:07

What am I taking away? Oh, tears. In a very long journey, you’re very resilient and very hard-headed, and I will push. I'm a very hard worker. I am where I’m supposed to be right now.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:11:19

Thank you, Yonela. Thank you for sharing your story and thank you for your big, beautiful, open heart and your vulnerability, and for not losing hope. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:11:34

Thank you. Thank you for this platform and thank you for your sessions, generally, because this is my cry session. Every single time we have a session, definite tears. Since day one. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:11:46

This is true. Your tears are very welcome here. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:11:50

Thank you for making them… or making me feel like I can cry and be vulnerable and just be myself, and I think that, for me, is very important. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:11:58

I love that you can do that. I love that you can be real and I love that you're in touch with your feelings, and I love that you feel things and you keep doing what you need to do. The feelings don't overwhelm you, but that they are there and they're allowed to be there. 

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:12:13

I realize that I think crying and allowing yourself to cry and be vulnerable, even though, you know, even if it's in your own space or however you go about it, it's so important to like be able to rejuvenate yourself and the next day be able to cope, because if I don't, then I'm just going to be a ball of anxiety.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Eve Ensler has a brilliant TED talk called, I Am An Emotional Creature, about the importance of emotion and about the importance of feeling your emotions, and by that I don't mean that we should allow emotion to hijack us or control our lives, but that when you're in touch with your emotions you're much more attuned to what's happening in the world and you can respond appropriately. 

Amy Kaye

01:12:54

I'm just looking forward to hearing Yonela’s cries.

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

Me too. Me too.

Dr Yonela Kentane Guest

01:13:01

Ja, I cry, it's okay, they can hear me cry. 

Dr Maria Christodoulou Host

01:13:05

I think they're going to hear you roar.

I'm Dr Maria Christodoulou and you've been listening to the Awakening Doctor podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, please share it with your friends, follow Awakening Doctor on Instagram, Facebook and Spotify, and go to Apple Podcasts to subscribe, rate and give us a good review. Thank you so much for listening.